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 Post subject: H265 future support
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:07 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:54 pm
Posts: 2
Good day,

I was wondering: Anyone have an idea if Axis will be releasing cameras with H265 encoders? The codec appears to work well with streaming video encoding as well as pre-recorded video, but requires hardware encoding/decoding to really be useful in a real time situation.

Has anyone had experience with another brand's H265 cameras? What is the CPU use like when viewing a stream or multiple streams? Does the in-built H265 decoder in newer Intel and AMD chips really help enough to allow a "video wall"-type experience with multiple (maybe 36?) live streams up at once? I could see a potential for a dual-stream device that could stream H264 to a viewer app and stream H265 to the VMS for recording but I assume that would essentially double the cost of the electronics.


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 Post subject: Re: H265 future support
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:33 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:12 pm
Posts: 4
There are a few Axis cameras that support h.265 now. Most are high-end cameras, like the Q6125-LE. But they do also have the M202x Mark II that support it.

I haven't seen a huge reduction in bandwidth with h.265 for IP surveillance, but I've only got one camera that supports it (the Q6125-LE). h.265 shines at higher resolutions, hence why it is used for 4k movies. But at 1080p, it's not really that much more efficient than what we have with h.264 with the various optimizations that the camera vendors have created (like ZipStream).

What I have observed is that it's a colossal nightmare to view. Web browsers don't support it, so native UI on the camera won't do it in Live View or in recordings playback. Similar issues with the VMD I use, Synology's Surveillance Station. It supports h.265 in the native client, but not in the web client. And then sometimes the native client just wigs out and displays garbage instead of video intermittently since it doesn't fully decode it consistently.

The plain and simple of it is, it's still a bit early for h.265. Support will get better over time. I'd expect it to be a lot more common in a couple years, especially has higher resolution surveillance cameras become more popular. (In professional surveillance, they are a mixed bag. The extra resolution is nice, yes, but it also eats up more storage and that's a serious concern for folks with hundreds of cameras deployed...)


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 Post subject: Re: H265 future support
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:53 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:54 pm
Posts: 2
Thanks, Christopher, I didn't know there were any released cameras with H.265 support. I searched for it, but neglected the "." in the format, so nothing came back. Oops.

The client decode issues you speak of are pretty much what I expected to hear. Between essentially requiring hardware acceleration to function correctly, and the licensing issues with the codec, it's no wonder it isn't supported in any browser. Since posting this thread I did a little research and I've read it can cost up to $5 per software copy to license the H.265 codec, since there are multiple parties claiming "ownership" of it. That means Firefox would have to shell out ~$5 billion to cover all copies of the Firefox browser... and they have no income since the browser is free in the first place. Yeah, I don't think we're going to see H.265 support any time soon. :( The VMS I use, Video Insight, has enough problems with regular H.264, so I figure H.265 will probably be even worse.

I'm not too surprised that the stream bandwidth isn't reduced significantly, since H.265 usually needs to compute many frames back to save any significant amount, and it's a very intensive process. I've seen amazing reductions in file size in post-recording transcodes from H.264 to H.265 on the order of several GB becoming less than a gig with no apparent loss of video fidelity, but that process is so CPU-intensive as to be impossible for streaming video recording or real time transcoding. I'm seeing multiple hours per hour of recorded video at 1080p, at least on the hardware I have available.

I'm going to check out the savings with Zipstream, since I haven't used it on any of my cameras to-date. That may be the best way to go, since I don't have any budget for more storage OR cameras.


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 Post subject: Re: H265 future support
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:16 pm 

Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:54 pm
Posts: 3
Interesting discussions folks. Thank you all for enlightening an inexperienced person like me.

I have posted a question in this forum and maybe one of you can reply to my naive question.

Is H.265/H.265+ dependent on the camera HW itself, i.e., the camera contains a chipset that supports it, or it isn't, i.e., it might come as a firmware upgrade or update in the future for devices to use it?

Sorry if my question sounds primitive and naive, I'm beginning to learn

Thanks


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